came out of intellectual, atheistic, radical jewish families. they are, in a sense, the contemporary flowering of judaism, in the sense that they are returning to very ancient roots, that old rock upon which all the world's religions, i believe, have been based. >> now which changes not. >> huh? >> now which changes not. >> ah, yes. >> well, the jewish tradition, in other words, is fulfilled in both margot adler and starhawk - they're both jewish. >> yes. >> that's the point i made. >> yeah, and i think that does also fit - back with judaism, we were talking about different interpretations of the genesis story, the alienation story, and i love your myth about leaving the fires, leaving it and going out and becoming, so that more relationship could happen, more interaction could happen, and you can see it in that form. do you know what we wanted to do? well, i'll tell you.